Comments on: Stop watching Doctor Who, you idiot!

By: Scott Harrison

Scott Harrison — Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:53:36 +0000

I agree with both Marks here – Morris & Clapham. I don’t think the opinions of New Who viewers who are ‘forever positive’ should be as worthless or ignored as those that continually slag it off. How can you be ‘too’ positive? If they adore each and every episode then surely they’re the ideal viewers for this programme?! They’re the ones who SHOULD be watching week in, week out! As with Mark M, some good points made about those classic episodes that the greater proportion of Who fans seem to hate. I always find something good and downright enjoyable in all Who stories, even those voted worst by fans, such as Twin Dilemma, Timelash, Timeflight, even Time and the Rani! I guess that makes me one of those worthless ‘forever positive’ fans though. So, just ignore me, eh?

By: Mark Clapham

Mark Clapham — Sun, 03 Jan 2010 18:51:33 +0000

I don’t buy that the ‘forever positive’ are ‘just as bad’ as the ‘forever negative’. I’m not really interested in reading unstinting praise – I haven’t even read most of the newspaper reviews of End of Time – but in terms of forum posters, surely there’s a perfectly natural overlap between ‘people who bang on about Doctor Who every week’ and ‘people who really, really like Doctor Who’?

While it may not make for riveting reading, it makes sense that people who really like something talk about it a lot, and keep watching. That’s fandom in it’s purist sense, surely?

The masochistic cycle of watching something you hate even though you hate it, on the other hand, doesn’t make sense to me. Who has the time to watch things they don’t like? I barely have time to watch things that I only *quite* like.

By: Non-ranting Non-mingmong (name changed to avoid hate mail)

Non-ranting Non-mingmong (name changed to avoid hate mail) — Sun, 03 Jan 2010 01:11:57 +0000

“I’d certainly be interested in where you got your statistics when you say “most fans of the classic show enjoy episodes made long before they were born” – perhaps you could forward examples of the evidence you’ve obtained. I’m assuming it’s not a statistic you just invented.”

I think common sense would suggest that a VAST majority of classic fans were born after 1963, and only a very small proportion of fans have been watching from day 1 in November 1963 so I feel I have made a reasonable statement suggesting MOST (not all) classic fans are watching at least some shows from before their birth or from a time when they were too young to watch. Unless you are suggesting ALL detractors are 50+?

“This wasn’t an RTD blog post, though, so not sure why you brought him up specifically”

While I regret using the g-word in my first statement, as your blog is about new-who hatred and RTD is, so far, entirely responsible for new-who then it IS fair to bring him up, I believe.

I specifically mentioned Turn Left, not because I was ignorant of who wrote it, but PRECISELY because I knew exactly who wrote it (and it’s probably my favourite new-who story) to show that I am not an RTD hater, I just feel his season finales in particular are very poor indeed.

TEoTP2 was saved from total horror by outstanding performances form Dalton, Simm and Cribbins but none of them could diminish the long, drawn out and self indulgent scenes at the end.

(PS The mushroom analogy doesn’t really work. New Coke vs Classic would have been a closer match.:D )

By: Howard Decker

Howard Decker — Sun, 03 Jan 2010 00:38:25 +0000

My wife says I shouldn’t post after drinking a bottle of wine by myself in an hour, and she’s almost certainly right. Nonetheless: well said. You are especially sound on mushrooms.

By: Peter Anghelides

Peter Anghelides — Sat, 02 Jan 2010 21:42:00 +0000

Net discussions, especially on fan groups, seem to me to descend fairly rapidly into binary positions — you love something or you loathe it, and any disagreement puts you in “the other group”. If that’s the choice, then I’d rather be lumped in the relentlessly positive group, rather than the obsessively negative group. Though the truth is, invariably, more nuanced.

Meanwhile, I have blogged about the bizarre “Daily Mail” article about Tennant Xmas Overload: http://is.gd/5K4CR

By: Mark Morris

Mark Morris — Sat, 02 Jan 2010 19:16:32 +0000

I agree with Lee. Some fans are just so ridiculously vitriolic & personal when it comes to episodes they don’t like. There is no need for that sort of poisonous, blinkered rant. It’s offensive to all those who work hard on the show & counter-productive to the show as a whole. When it comes to (for example) RTD, some fans react as though he’s deliberately delighting in destroying the programme they love. He’s not. He’s a fan of the show himself & he’s doing his best. He’s pouring his heart & soul into his work & creating crowd-pleasing, exciting & entertaining television that can be (and is, judging by the viewing figures and the consistently high AI indexes) enjoyed by both committed & casual viewers of all ages. There are episodes of the new series I haven’t been that enamoured by, but I don’t get angry and viciously offensive about them. I just shrug my shoulders a little disappointedly and think ‘Oh well, maybe I’ll like next week’s episode.’ And to be honest, even the episodes I don’t like that much usually have plenty of elements to enjoy. For instance, I wasn’t keen on many aspects of the Master/Time Lord plot in ‘The End of Time’ (too much technobabble, too much reliance on meaningless ‘prophecies’, too much left unexplained & unexplored), but I loved the unashamedly sentimental last 15 minutes, I loved the performances of Tennant, Cribbins, Simm et al, I loved Matt Smith’s cameo etc etc. In a strange, cringing, masochistic way I even enjoy things like the horrible gaudiness of ‘The Twin Dilemma’ or the ridiculously OTT performance of Paul Darrow in ‘Timelash’. Doctor Who is *fun*. It’s to be enjoyed & revelled in & sometimes laughed at and with. It’s not po-faced drama which has to be taken deadly seriously & where all the pieces have to fit together just so. It’s exuberant, colourful, life-affirming escapism! And if you don’t buy into that, if you find yourself, more often than not, hating the show because it doesn’t match your own personal image of what it should be, then I too suggest you stop watching it and move on to something else.

By: Lee

Lee — Sat, 02 Jan 2010 18:57:34 +0000

We’re in agreement there, Adam. Sometimes I think people try to out-do others in their adoration of the series (it’s not confined to Doctor Who, of course, but it’s perhaps more apparent with Who than any other series I know).

I think context is important, too. I watched Planet of the Dead at EasterCon, on a projected screen in a room surrounded by 500 people who had been drinking all day. The atmosphere was electric, and the show was a huge success! I’m not certain I could enjoy it as much while sober, though it might be worth it for the leather outfit worn by Michele Ryan…

There isn’t a single episode that doesn’t have *something* going for it, though, even if sometimes the somethings are hard to spot.

By: Adam Christopher

Adam Christopher — Sat, 02 Jan 2010 18:49:24 +0000

@Lee – Yes, I agree, the forever-negative are a drag. I neglected to mention in my first post that I also mod a mid-sized forum, Roobarb’s DVD Forum, which has a large Doctor Who section. We see it there a lot, and indeed, there are people you just want to throttle and ask, why are you watching?!?!

For myself, I have low expectations for new series episodes, but I’m prepared to be surprised. And I frequently have been.

On the other hand, the forever-negative are matched by the forever-positive. While voting “awful” each and every week on our forum polls is silly, so is voting “excellent”. Okay, lots of people are fans, but I can’t see how every single episode is wonderful and amazing and faultless. There is a need to engage the brain some of the time!

By: Lee

Lee — Sat, 02 Jan 2010 17:48:48 +0000

Some good points, Adam – I agree, Who can be variable in quality, but I do find it fascinating that there are so many people who watch it, knowing that they’re not going to enjoy it, seemingly for the sole intention of trashing it.

And yes, Midnight *was* wonderful – showing us that we can be the biggest monsters in the entire series…

I’m not one to endlessly praise RTD, though on balance he has achieved *significantly* more good than bad, and I thought that The End of Time was not without its flaws, but it was never going to be classic Who. I saw it as RTD’s and Tennant’s farewell to everyone – something to have fun with, rather than to take too seriously. Sometimes it’s enough just to have fun.

And you know, I *do* respect your opinion (and everyone else’s), but there comes a point when I have to question just *why* some people continue to prod at the sore tooth…

By: Adam Christopher

Adam Christopher — Sat, 02 Jan 2010 17:36:26 +0000

It’s a common recommendation, Lee, but it’s not quite as black and white as that. I’ve been a fan for 25 years, and in fact I even edit TSV, the award-winning fanzine of the New Zealand Doctor Who Fan Club.

It is fair to say I don’t like the new series, overall. The End of Time was, for me, nonsensical dribble. In fact I haven’t liked any of the specials this year. I think the new series is, largely, awful.

However – and it’s a big however – for every The End of Time, there is Midnight. I LOVE Midnight. I think Midnight is one of the best things I’ve ever seen on UK TV. For every Planet of the Dead, there is Human Nature. Human Nature is stupendously wonderful. For every The Last of the Time Lords, there is Blink. Blink is as-toun-ding.

So it’s tricky. My main problem is that I find Doctor Who so wildly variable. The End of Time was (in my personal opinion) the most diabolical kack of the highest (lowest?) order. It made me want to drive knitting needles into my eyes and drink anti-freeze.

But I watched it. It might have been good. It could have been Midnight.

And as for series 5, well, I’ll be watching the first episode. It might be more of the same tosh, but then again, it could be as good as Human Nature. Or Blink. Or The Parting of the Ways.

The best thing to do is IGNORE it/us. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn’t matter. It’s just personal opinion. It’s not right or wrong. However, as SF fans, it’s in our nature to pick and prod and take things apart. I can find significant fault with The End of Time that render it useless as a piece of television. If you can’t, or won’t, see these faults, then that’s fine. It doesn’t bother me.

My philosophy is to just take it as it comes. While people who relentlessly bang on about how they hate the new series are grating to yourself, I find the endless praise for RTD and The End of Time equally horrifying.

But it’s not my place to tell you what to watch, so I’d love it if you could respect my own opinion (which differs to your own), and please don’t tell me what to watch, or not watch in this case.